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Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011, 12:47 am
In for a penny, in for a pound

When Germans came into Poland, Poles made no more sporting shotguns.They made Sten clones. When Russians went into Chechniya, Chechens made no sporting shotguns, either. They made various submachine guns. Should US anti-gun creatures succeed in driving regular rifles and shotguns out of legal circulation, they will see more submachine guns as well. Sound suppressors would reduce the risk of discovery by authorities as well as the muzzle blast, so having a silenced gun would be safer for the user. Seems to me that the American anti-gun activists don't understand just how simple open-bolt weapons really are.



Might be worth educating them. Perhaps those who still think gun control is a good idea would give it up for pragmatic rather than ideological reasons...and if they will not, at least the fence-sitters would know gun control fans for the delusional critters they are.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 07:08 am (UTC)
ernunnos

Make mine a Swedish K, but yeah.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 07:12 am (UTC)
olegvolk

Effectively the same thing, just turned 90 degrees and with higher cyclic rate.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 07:31 am (UTC)
ilcylic

I ought to go digging for blueprints again. It would be good to have such things on file, just in case.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 02:41 pm (UTC)
perspicuity

even better, machine all the parts, and make lamps lego style with the parts, so that it's art deco rather than a "gun" :) nobody seizes lamps ;)

there's also that metal puzzle this guy makes. take it apart, and it builds into 1-2 different kinds of guns. includes ammo :>

#

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 07:57 am (UTC)
squidb0i

Wonderful. Will share.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 08:45 am (UTC)
stomatolog: <хмыкнув>

Чечня - это часть России, если кто забыл. :/

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 08:48 am (UTC)
olegvolk: Re: <хмыкнув>

And yet people there still made submachine guns. Same thing happened when Armenia and Azerbaijan fought their war. My point was that people who are short of regular arms will make submachine guns as the simplest and most expedient.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 02:02 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Unfortunately...

...I don't think this argument will sway anyone. You are talking about people who think that making something illegal will make criminals stop doing it. I think threatening them with "criminals will become even better at it" requires way too much of a leap in understanding. Plus, I am not sure I completely buy the analogy... in Poland and Chechnya they needed submachine guns to be effective at their chosen criminal enterprise (armed resistance). If we are talking about gang bangers, liquor store hold-up men, and drug dealers; they can get by nicely with your average single shot zip gun.
JMHO

Sat, Jan. 15th, 2011 03:06 am (UTC)
orochiyamazaki: Re: Unfortunately...

But, it's generally not about stopping criminals, for most gun grabbers. It seems like it's all about disarming the public, making them more subservient. It's more important to let the people know they're being duped.

Wed, Jan. 12th, 2011 02:32 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

Hmmm....

*files away in a dark, hidden store for use... later.*

*anon for obvious reasons*

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 03:20 pm (UTC)
slav_cyborg

Poland is populated by civilized White people. At the same time Chechniya is populated by tribes with low level of culture. So the parallel can be incorrect.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 03:29 pm (UTC)
seadevil001

Chechens are white, which indicate that level of culture does not correlate with skin color. At least in some places. Poles actually not far ahead with thier ethernal chip on the shoulder. Thier problem seems that Poland wanted to be a Russia, but did not made it.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 04:42 pm (UTC)
jdege

It's called the Iron Law of Prohibition. When sale of all alcohol was made illegal, the bootleggers didn't smuggle wine or beer.

Wed, Jan. 12th, 2011 02:22 am (UTC)
staghounds

Yes they did.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 06:28 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Um..yea

I love the photos of all those modern Chinese home built SMGs. Or the ones built in Germany after the war, when the country was disarmed. And the ones in Hong Kong, a place infamous for strict gun control today.

Maybe disarmament is only a component. Perhaps there's a distinction between civilian disarmament during times of peace, and underground weapons manufacture during times of war and occupation?

Anyone have any photos of modern, illegal, home made SMGs from a country with strict gun control that is not at war or violent revolution?

If folks are able to steal ammunition, they're likely able to steal firearms. They likely have a better chance stealing or smuggling AK 47's today than manufacturing Sten clones in hobbyist basements. The modern black market in arms is quite robust as I understand it.


Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 06:31 pm (UTC)
olegvolk: Re: Um..yea

You are right that buying, stealing or capturing guns is easier than home manufacturing. But I show these to explain that even tight control over complete weapons is unlikely to stop their proliferation.

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 08:08 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

P. A. Luty. Look him up.

Amazon still lists his Expedient Homemade Firearms (http://www.amazon.com/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-9mm-Submachine/dp/0873649834/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294776377&sr=8-1).

Tue, Jan. 11th, 2011 09:09 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous)

Umm...as "crazy gun nuts" go I'm fairly un-paranoid (I don't own a single tin-foil hat...)
But there's no way in a million years I'd buy a book called "expedient homemade Firearms from a major public corporation, online, under my real name and with my credit card. Find it (or the relevant info) online somewhere, download from someones else's (work, internet cafe, library) computer or through multiple proxies and onion routers...
Otherwise you might as well just send a note in to the FBI and the BATF with your name and address and "Please monitor me, I'm a dangerous subversive potential domestic terrorist"

Wed, Jan. 12th, 2011 12:00 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): оружие в Польше сегодня тоже запрещено

but people here don't make guns anymore.

Pozdrawiam!

Wed, Jan. 12th, 2011 12:32 am (UTC)
trebor1415

Anyone have any good blueprints for a simple closed bolt semi-auto?

I'd like to make a home made firearm, just to show that it can be done, but want to stay legal so I need to keep it to a closed bolt semi design.

Wed, Jan. 12th, 2011 02:33 am (UTC)
chainmaile

I think, if it came down to such a tight control on firearms, ammo would be the hard thing to get.

I had a meeting at the local sheriff's department about a week ago. Waiting to hear from the CA DOJ to continue on with my quest to get a CCW.

Oleg: Even though it's pretty soon, you might think of doing a psoter pointing out if someone at the shooting site in Arizona had been armed there might have been a lot less damage.

Wed, Jan. 12th, 2011 08:02 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)

As I understand there were people armed at the site of the shooting. However, there was not a chance for them to employ their weapons.

Please note that AZ overall is very firearm friendly, though admittedly Pima county is less so.

Mon, Jan. 17th, 2011 05:45 pm (UTC)
TalkSouthRadio: The point is unintended consequences

Government attempts at piecemeal gun control have backfired time after time. When Saturday Night Specials were targeted, supply dried up, and thugs moved to better, more dependable class of firearms.

The last time hi-cap mags were banned, gun makers moved to produce smaller, lighter pistols, easier to conceal pistols tied to a ten round limit. Great for honest conceal carry crowd, but the gun control crowd wasn't happy.

Now they're back after hi-cap mags. And they're vilifying the light, easy to carry Glock in the process.

I do wish the disarmament crowd would go spend a little time in Mexico. Take a look at how things work in a country that keeps its people from legally owning guns. And, as you suggest, the law-breaker who possesses a gun under those circumstances goes for the biggest or best he can find. And, as the Washington Post noted last year, they also move up to using grenades and other looted military firepower.