Wed, Nov. 3rd, 2010, 07:22 pm
"If you are so afraid, just get a big dog!"
"Get a dog" is a common advice from people who are opposed to guns for self-defense. Dogs aren't very good substitutes for firearms for several reasons, one of them being their high cost.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:35 am (UTC)
Finally, add that dog has no safeties, but it does have its own mind. Now, let's remember that this dog was trained not by a Decent Person, but by someone who we do not want to trust with a gun
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:50 am (UTC)
I plan on addressing that in another poster.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:41 am (UTC)
While I don't disagree with the premise of the poster, $6000 a year for a dogs food is RIDICULOUS, that would be $115 a week. We have an 85 lbs dog and his food runs approximately $30 a month.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:44 am (UTC)
Yeah, our dog eats one ~$50 bag of dog food a month. I'm thinking maybe that was a typo, and Oleg meant $600.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:49 am (UTC)
Was a typo.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:41 am (UTC)
if you are not home when break-in happens, and bad guys shoot your dog...
thats when you start regretting even thinking of getting a guard dog.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 12:46 am (UTC)
Guns are usually not prohibited by your apartment lease, either. :)
Sat, Nov. 6th, 2010 08:39 pm (UTC)
> Guns are usually not prohibited by your apartment lease, either. :)
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 01:06 am (UTC)
My parents had two dogs when their home got burglarized. The burglars got away with several thousand dollars of electronics while the dogs slept.
I love dogs. I grew up with dogs. For home security, I prefer good locks and a shotgun.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 01:29 pm (UTC)
Hasn't happened to us yet but our dog sleeps thro repairmen, visitors, and anything that doesn't bring it food. Even then it has to wake up, stretch, and decide if he wants to bark. It's kinda pathetic.
My gun however is ready whenever it is needed and doesn't decide it wants a walk at 11 pm.
On Discovery's "It Takes a Thief" show just about every week they would break into a house with a dog. Sometimes the dog would bark, never would it bite. Often the dog would either play with the burglar or go hide somewhere.
My own experience with dogs is that they are great for telling me when I need to get my gun.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 01:34 am (UTC)
abno: Re: Thief
::My own experience with dogs is that they are great for telling me when I need to get my gun.::
Oh, they're great for that. Especially those little lap dogs.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 04:21 am (UTC)
squidb0i: Amen to that.
I've got three little bat-eared canine burglar alarms, and the likelihood of one being in the line of fire is pretty slim, even with the buckshot I'd be using.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 09:29 am (UTC)
templarwolf: Re: Thief
Yeah, but I'd get tired of scrambling for a weapon every time a mouse farted.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 01:56 am (UTC)
Yeah, I always frown when someone recommended a dog for self defense...
If I ever decide to adopt a dog, he or she would be another being I would want to defend with a firearm. Pets are just as much family, in my household, as any person. I appreciate if they would be willing to defend me, but I'd feel like a complete heel if I willingly used them as a shield against a violent attacker. It'd be like saying "instead of a gun, why not throw Uncle Jesse at an attacker?"
In the past, we actually trained our two dogs to bark at, but ~NOT~
confront an attacker, to protect them from being attacked themselves. That's what my dad's firearms were for. This training had the added benefit of the dogs never getting in trouble for aggressive behavior, when neighbors' dogs were regularly getting faces-full of porcupine quills, skunk sprayed, or put down for biting pedestrians.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 04:16 am (UTC)
That was just the point I wanted to make.
"Just make some other living creature take the risk you won't take."
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 02:23 am (UTC)
I'm quite fond of my big dogs... I wouldn't want them shot or hurt.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 02:26 am (UTC)
i hear what you're saying... but...
$2000 seems high for a dog, unless you want a SPECIAL dog... they're almost free for the taking.
$400 seems low for the type of shotgun i'd want as a home defense special.
$1000 for dog training seems high. several people i know do training themselves, and those dogs are amazing. training seems to be an ongoing thing as you refine and figure stuff out. now, if you're going for a specialized guard dog, that's another issue. those are very different.
$1000 for shotgun training perhaps seems high, i dunno. point and shoot? now, a legal course in home defense might run $500 last i checked? mmm.
dogs make great companions too. they don't look funny when you go on patrol of your neighbor as well ;)
also, dogs aren't usually stolen and used again someone else :)
a gun will rarely chew up your slippers or pee on the carpets... then again, a gun CAN malfunction and require some rather expensive work. they do require maintenance kits, and the user usually requires accessories (ear/eye protection...)
both often require licenses and other fees
but more importantly, some idiots shouldn't have dogs at all. just like some people shouldn't have guns.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 03:11 am (UTC)
If you want a specialized guard dog, those prices for dogs and training are accurate, and a little on the low end. Especially since you will also need specialized training gear.
I think Oleg is just trying to compare apples to apples as much as possible.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 04:23 am (UTC)
I dunno man, I scored a like-new Mossberg Persuader 7+1 for $180 + brady.
It can definitely be done.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 09:49 am (UTC)
also, dogs aren't usually stolen and used again someone else :)
while they're often not used against someone else, plenty of dogs get stolen from yards.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 06:57 pm (UTC)
or around here, eaten.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 02:49 am (UTC)
I've seen shotgun courses from $300 to $2000. $1K seems average.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 09:32 am (UTC)
Not sure about the training, I got mine for free from Dad.
$200 for range fees seems about right to me. My club is about $120 per year (family membership), plus $2.50 per game of trap/skeet. I usually will shoot 2-4 games each time I'm out, and I'm not lucky enough to get the oddly colored bird for a free game every time I'm up.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 03:42 am (UTC)
I personaly pepper sprayed a guard dog defending a property and it prompty ran for the dog house and didn't come back out as long as I was there. You want defense, get a security system and a gun. The upside is we were able to deliver the evacuation order to the home owner before the forest fire got to them. Everyone, including the dog, got out safely.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 05:36 am (UTC)
I think there is a cost that has not been considered, emotional attachment to the dog. A dog is a living thinking animal that strives to please it's owners when treated properly. I would rather shoot a scumbag then lose a companian to that scumbag. Like many people I could not own a dog and think of it as a self defence weapon that can be easily replaced if needed. If there is a dog in this house then it is part of the family,not a throw away item. How do we figure this cost into a guard dog that is willing to and may lay down it's life for it's owners? We would forever be thankfull if it did that but as has been said,the dog should let you know when its time to get out a gun. If the dog is home alone I would prefer it just did a lot of barking while backing up......until someone got there with a gun!
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 05:43 am (UTC)
The average home owner is not going to purchase or maintain an attack dog or police K9 which Oleg’s prices indicate. Instead they’ll purchase, adopt or be given a breed or mutt they believe will protect their property and them. Regardless of the breed, not all dogs will do this, nor can most be truly trained to do so. So in essence home owners end up with a large to medium sized dog whose sole purpose is being a big, furry pet that will sometimes bark at strangers or intruders.
A far better watch dog would be geese, guineas, goats or a donkey, all of which will always let you know when someone or something is on your property. Should a dog still be desired then simply go with a smaller breed that will bark and alert you. FWIW parrot’s, cat’s and a common everyday chicken, particularly a rooster will let you know something’s out and about.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 06:46 am (UTC)
I think Oleg knows most people will not get a trained attack dog,he is just comparing because a lot of people do say "get a guard dog" when you mention guns as protection to them. My mother is famous for it,but she wont say that theres an semi-auto Uzi,12ga semi,12ga pump,30-06,Beretta 9mm and beretta .25 in the her house but no dog... But you are right,most dogs don't work as a guard dog or even a dog that alerts you to something or someone strange in the yard. We got lucky,wife picked up a 2 year old 2 time loser at the pound a few months ago just to see what it would be like here at the house,The dog has a perminent home here! Anything bigger then a cat in the yard and we know about it! 88 year old father-in-law fell down in the yard last week and the dog went bullistic at the window. Even people she see's every day get barked and growled at if they are in the yard. She has very distinctive barks and growls as to who or what. I don't expect her to defend but she does get in-between an unknown person and someone that belongs here. We got very lucky for the above and for the fact that she is pleasure to have around, have to wonder why she was in the pound twice.......
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 06:41 am (UTC)
Dog is a bad emulation for gun. And vice versa. But a big smart dog and a good gun...
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 08:04 am (UTC)
fredflyer: Old favorite poster
My philosophy on this matter is summed up very well by a poster that I have seen over the years. On the top half is a profile of a fat revolver like a Colt Python, below is a statement: "The dog is small, noisy, and harmless. The owner is NOT!" --Rocky
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 09:34 am (UTC)
templarwolf: Re: Old favorite poster
I have a sign that reads, "Never mind the dog; beware of owner."
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 10:54 am (UTC)
I stole the image and stuck it up on www.gunownerssa.org (you gave me permission to use your images yonks ago, if that ever changes you just have to let me know :-)
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 01:34 pm (UTC)
Home Defense Dog: Can be suborned with a pound of hamburger.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 02:03 pm (UTC)
That and, should the dog actually be trained properly OR be the kind that would bite an intruder when you're not home, it would be deemed a dangerous dog and you'd face the city demanding the dog be put down, inability to obtain homeowners insurance, neighbors blaming your dog for anything that goes wrong or claiming your dog bit them or their child (not necessarily because the dog did bite but because they just don't like the dog).
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 03:48 pm (UTC)
> Ammunition ... $200/year
Oh damn, why must I buy 410x70 shells per $1 each? :-( My local hucksters completely lost their conscience.
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 06:20 pm (UTC)
My dog (nor my shotgun)cost me anything close to that... And they make a great team.
Chompy McPsycho detects and engages goblin, allowing me to employ firearm at leisure. ;)
Thu, Nov. 4th, 2010 06:28 pm (UTC)
My dogs make a good alarm system to wake me up... gives me enough time to grab hold of the gun, and the other half hers...
Although my cousin told me recently that he refused to go into my house while he was there on his own because my Chow Chow looked like she was going to kill him, and enjoy doing it.... funny thing is, if the family is home, he can come up with no problems and she's fine with him...
Fri, Nov. 5th, 2010 12:05 am (UTC)
Darin R. Pfaff: Yeah, but...
My home defense guns haven't done so well in the frisbee catching department, and as the temps drop into the 20s tonight, I'm kinda glad I have two big dogs to convert dog food into BTUs and pre-heat my side of the bed. Right tool for the job, and all that...
Fri, Nov. 5th, 2010 01:46 am (UTC)
$14000 vs $5400 for 10 years though I think the food, vet and training costs are low. One simple surgery and you've blown your annual expenses. Pet insurance, max rate is $1171.20 for one year and well worth it. $11712 for health care for 10 years.http://www.raisingspot.com/adopting/cost-of-owning-dog
"After the first year. The yearly cost can start at $360 and rise to $2,520 or more."
Based on that article a dog can cost more over 10 years than a car. ;)Edited at 2010-11-05 01:47 am (UTC)
Sat, Nov. 6th, 2010 06:55 am (UTC)
Axe > Dog.
Axe < Gun.
Sat, Nov. 6th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
Интересно. Thank you! :)