Oleg Volk ([info]olegvolk) wrote,

Ethics of weapon use.

Imagine a child playing in a backyard sandbox. The child's parent observes a viper about to bite the child. Acting quickly, he picks up the snake and tosses it gently into the distant bushes. No harm done to the snake or the child. Was that action ethical?

Now consider the speed with which the man would have had to act to safeguard the kid and to avoid getting bitten in turn. The snake probably landed roughly and was injured or killed by the impact. The man used his hands as a weapon to stop the snake from biting and, as a side effect of stopping it, caused it harm. Was that action ethical?

Would your answer change if the man throws a rock, or uses a stick? What about a hoe or a shovel, both gardening tools but used as weapons? The outcome to the child would be the same, as would be the outcome to the snake. Still ethical?

Now imagine that the father was too far from the snake to keep it from biting his child by throwing a rock. Maybe the father is old or infirm and not very good at throwing stones accurately. Could he ethically use a crossbow or a rifle to stop the snake from harming his kid?


Now, let's back up to the first hypothetical. The viper is only half-way to the sandbox, it gets picked up and tossed gently...into the sandbox with the child. Angry, it strikes and bites at once. The same human hands were used as a weapons, but was the use ethical? Would the use of a stick to goad the snake towards the sandbox have been any better?

Tools don't matter. Actions with them do.


Let's imagine another situation, the kind quite common in many restrictive jurisdictions. The same man sees the same snake in readiness to strike. He is too far to reach with his hands, or with a stick or a rock. A rifle would have saved the day, but it is forbidden to him...or locked up in a safe according to the legal requirements. The delay is fatal. Who bears the legal responsibility for the delay? No one. But what of the ethical responsibility?



Would the ethics of the situation change if the threat to the child is not a snake but a rabid, feral dog? How about a rogue human? Unlike animals, humans are presumed to be capable of ethical behavior -- those who are not are termed sociopaths. So a human who knows better than preying on other humans decided to do so anyway and attacks the kid: must the parent be limited to his bare hands in stopping the aggression? For a martial artist in his prime, that may be possible, though perilous. The attacker would still suffer physical harm. Would that be ethical?

Would a stick be allowed for the defender? A rock? A piece of pipe? A sword? A crossbow? A pistol? So long as the intent is ethical, in this case prevention of harm to an innocent, what does it matter if the attacker is hit with a two-pound rock or a quarter-ounce bullet?

Tools don't matter. Actions with them do.



"But we don't mean to disarm the law-abiding!" say those who disagree with my conclusions. Whatever they meant to do is less important than what they actually do. They can only disarm the law-abiding, as the rest wouldn't play along. Moreover, "law-abiding" is not a compliment when the laws are harmful to decent humans and thus not worthy of obedience. Laws that disarm force decent, peaceful humans to choose between putting themselves and their families at additional risk of victimization by freelance criminals for lack of defensive tools (including, in some times and places, even sticks) or retaining arms and risking imprisonment or death at the hands of the law enforcers. Forcing people into such a dilemma is hardly ethical.

Punishment of needlessly violent behavior is ethical. However, capability for violent behavior cannot be prosecuted. Even a man stripped naked, deprived of all tools or weapons, has the capability for violence. He can punch, kick or bite. He kick pick up another person and drop him. Except for infants, people in straight-jackets or quadripalegics, all others are capable of physical violence. The use or, more frequently, abstinence from violence are governed by the upbringing and the personality of each individual.

So how can we ethically justify employing threats of violence (in the form of law enforcement) to disarm peaceful individuals? We frown on armed robbery by individuals, why condone the same when done by groups operating under the color of the law?

Another consideration is the reduction of law enforcement effectiveness in disarmed countries. A person made less secure by legal disarmament would naturally view law enforcement agencies as enemies and withhold cooperation. Without widespread cooperation, police would be much less effective than in areas where it has popular support. Even those who view police favorably are still deprived of effective protection. Of course, legally "police protection" is a misnomer. There's no legal duty to protect individuals, only to uphold the laws for the society at large. Which brings us back to the ethics of depriving individuals of the means of self-protection while providing no bodyguards to compensate.

Providing bodyguards to everyone is a logical impossibility. Who guards the family of the bodyguard assigned to yours? Even assuming some magical source of bodyguards, what of the loss of privacy from having a stranger next to you at all times? In the old days, slaves were used for such purpose -- no one minded the loss of privacy to slaves, as they were hardly more than beasts or pets to the owners. Is that an ethical alternative to simply letting everyone take care of their own security?


"But I don't want to live like that!" Many people prefer to go unarmed. To them, the slight reduction of risk is not worth the effort or they find the armed lifestyle distasteful. That's a perfectly ethical position. Forcing others to do likewise would not be.

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  • 65 comments

[info]rusl

July 7 2009, 15:59:44 UTC 2 years ago

Use cut please. It's ethics.

[info]olegvolk

July 7 2009, 16:04:00 UTC 2 years ago

Done.

[info]carteach

July 7 2009, 16:18:16 UTC 2 years ago

You are correct.... it's the intent, the purpose, behind using the tool. Everything is a weapon, to a person who wants it to be.

[info]oldcurlywolf

July 8 2009, 04:25:07 UTC 2 years ago

I'd have to agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

[info]jokereet

July 7 2009, 16:22:11 UTC 2 years ago

Извините, отвечу по-русски.
Оружие это инструмент. Инструмент защиты. И лишать нормального, здорового, законопослушного человека, а главное человека СВОБОДНОГО права держать этот инструмент - преступление.

[info]dzimmerm

July 7 2009, 16:31:05 UTC 2 years ago

Now, all you have to do

Is get those who are not religiously against gun ownership to read your message. It is well thought out and as clear as it can be made within the constraints of the English language. It is a little long but it can not hurt to completely lay out the arguments like you did.

For most of us here you are preaching to the choir, so to speak. For the anti's they just will not see or understand. It is the great undecided middle section that needs to see this.

I have a friend at work that likes guns. He was in the military. Yet he opposes the average U.S.A. citizen having guns. He thinks the average U.S.A. citizen is more likely to hurt themselves and others rather than be useful in a situation where lethal force is needed. His quick comment is, "you would be dead before you got a chance to draw your weapon". He uses this argument to justify not carrying for his own protection or that of his family.

I think he sees what he wants to see so I have given up talking to him on this subject. He occasionally needles me about it but I refuse to engage when I know his mental doors are firmly shut. Somewhere in his life he made a decision.

How can you reach a person like this? He does not hate or fear guns. He distrusts regular people who have guns. Is his problem Elitism or just general distrust of U.S.A. citizens in general? He probably has had more than his share of antagonism from U.S.A. citizens as he married a lady from Bolivia and they have two beautiful daughters. He has had to deal with prejudice against Hispanic people in a personal way. That might have had some bearing on his attitude about the fitness of the average U.S.A. citizen to properly use lethal force.

Are we all elitists in some way? Does the gun carrying person feel he is better than the person who chooses not to carry? If you work where I work you are not allowed to carry in the building nor are you allowed to lock your gun in your car on their property. There is no easy place to park within walking distance. I am effectively disarmed by law and company policy. Some would say to quit the job and get one where I can carry. That is all well and good, but you are not the one who would need to find new employment. It is a goad though. I know what I should do but hesitate to go forward. I guess it is good that life is complicated.

[info]olegvolk

July 7 2009, 16:39:02 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Now, all you have to do

Feel free to link or re-post my article.

Elitism? Hardly! I recognize my own limitations pretty well -- I may be able to fight but not on a professional level. I know less of emergency medicine than I should, likewise of wilderness survival and of many other vital skills besides. I do not, however, agitate for the removal of medical equipment from people who aren't professional physicians.

As for the obedience to the company rules, it is a matter of pragmatism. Would you be better off fired if caught or unarmed if attacked or, since neither event is likely, would you have better peace of mind carrying concealed and not worrying about physical threats or not carrying and so at ease about unemployment threat.

[info]dd_b

July 7 2009, 17:02:46 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Now, all you have to do

When I first heard of the Florida shall-issue law, I expected there to be considerable cost in accidents/negligence, and a significant amount of over-zealous use of deadly force. And wondered if it might still be worth it. I thought it was a very brave experiment. Over the many years since then (and I know Florida wasn't the first shall-issue state, but it's the first time *I* noticed the issue), it's become clear that the damage is much less than I expected it to be, and the benefits at least as great.

I think most of us are pretty on-board with the concept that far too large a proportion of the general population are idiots. I'm frankly surprised that these idiots don't do more damage with carry permits than the statistics show they do. So I'm kinda sympathetic with your friend's position on that. I think the way to approach it is through the rather extensive figures we now have on how little damage these idiots (and the few smart people like ourselves) actually do with their guns.

[info]kbarrett

July 7 2009, 17:35:06 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Now, all you have to do

Typical authoritarian.

It's OK to have a firearm, if you have been vetted and given permission by Authority.

Screw him ... he worships authority, and probably belongs in some Euro or third world authoritarian crap-hole.

If he needles you, tell him that you find his authority worship disgusting, and that you don't need a mother-may-I from the government to exercise a basic human right.

[info]dd_b

2 years ago

[info]olegvolk

2 years ago

[info]olegvolk

2 years ago

[info]dd_b

2 years ago

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]olegvolk

2 years ago

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]maineshark

2 years ago

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]maineshark

2 years ago

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]maineshark

2 years ago

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

Anonymous

2 years ago

[info]dd_b

2 years ago

[info]siobhra

July 7 2009, 22:44:08 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Now, all you have to do

I had the same said to me at a party just this last weekend. I said I was glad he decided not to carry. That it takes a strong person to admit their weakness's and that he knows he lacks self-control. Not all people are willing to admit just how dangerous they are.

[info]alaxelrod

July 7 2009, 21:20:52 UTC 2 years ago

Текст прочитала, комментарии - нет. О чем речь, вроде поняла, но такое впечатление, как будто это фрагмент полемики, а не что-то самостоятельное. Не знаю контекста. Зачем доказывать, что оружие есть инструмент и само не убивает, когда это очевидная вещь? При чем тут этика?

[info]olegvolk

July 7 2009, 21:31:43 UTC 2 years ago

Ася,

Для многих, это не очевидно. Я попытался упростить логическую цепочку для доступности. Потом добавлю к своему сайту http://a-human-right.com

[info]dumpedbyv

July 7 2009, 22:36:21 UTC 2 years ago


[info]transponder

July 8 2009, 04:50:13 UTC 2 years ago

хорошо, согласен на 100%
вопрос на миллион долларов (и даже больше) - как это реализовать?

[info]olegvolk

July 8 2009, 05:10:49 UTC 2 years ago

Change attitudes. Over racism, slavery and a number of other attitudes which used to be respectable aren't anymore. I'd like gun control to be such an attitude.

Anonymous

July 8 2009, 08:03:33 UTC 2 years ago

In my opinion there are no defensive weapons - but there are no offensive weapons either.
There are only offensive or defensive uses of weapons. Show me a 'defensive weapon' and I'll give you an example for an offensive use - and vice versa.

Only German law knows the term 'Schutzwaffe' (~protective weapon) for items which protect you from the effects of force (shields, helmets, leather trousers, goggles, NBC-masks, knee/elbowpads, body armour,...). Everyone else would file such things under 'armour', not 'armament'. Yet even those can be employed offensively if worn by an assault team.


Oleg, I agree with what you wrote and what Art wrote and what Marko wrote. But it's the antis who need to be convinced. I guess I'll have to print out all three articles and give them to a 'Guinea pig' anti and watch for effects. ;-)

T.Stahl

[info]oldcurlywolf

July 8 2009, 15:11:06 UTC 2 years ago

watch for effects?

don't you mean wait for the guinea pig's head to spontaneously melt?

[info]squidb0i

July 8 2009, 15:19:33 UTC 2 years ago

"But it's the antis who need to be convinced"

Precisely.

And you'll never do that so long as you present the argument in a polarized fashion using partisan spin and hyperbole.
All this does is polarize the issue along partisan lines instead of making it the mainstream common sense given fact that it should be.

Articles like the one Oleg puts forth in the OP are excellent examples of the right way.
Common sense. Calm and logical. Clear examples.

Most arguments that I see are examples of the wrong way.
Paranoia. Partisan spin. Hyperbole.

This must change if we expect to make any mainstream headway on this issue at all.

[info]olegvolk

July 8 2009, 15:22:23 UTC 2 years ago

Re: "But it's the antis who need to be convinced"

Convincing the opposition is a lot less work than killing enough of them to make the rest give up :-)

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]dd_b

July 9 2009, 02:38:43 UTC 2 years ago

"Defensive" and "offensive" certainly does not give a clean definite split between weapons. Those are probably bad terms to even try to use.

However, weapons of local effect vs. weapons of wide-area effect is a useful distinction for some purposes, even though it isn't solidly black-and-white either.

[info]spartakos

July 8 2009, 16:35:56 UTC 2 years ago

I found the bit about everyone's inherent capacity for violence a key issue, which needs to be emphasized more often. It applies on many levels.

Reginald Bretnor pointed out in an essay that "a technologized society cannot be disarmed even if it wishes to be." I have to paraphrase him, but he asks at what point a tractor becomes a tank? At what point does a passenger plane become a bomber?

After 9-11, I think we know the answer to the latter question.

[info]squidb0i

July 8 2009, 17:31:17 UTC 2 years ago

Excellent point. And it can go even further back the technological timeline: at what point does a shovel become a Shaolin spade? At what point does the grain thresher become a nunchaku?

[info]spartakos

July 8 2009, 21:11:57 UTC 2 years ago

Agreed. And this merely serves to reinforce the basic point: violence is not about tools, it is about intent. Man is a tool-using animal, and unless we wish to go back to swinging from trees, we are going to equip ourselves with tools that can be used as weapons, often very deadly ones. In a modern industrial society, those tools are apt to be VERY deadly (note how many people automobiles kill each year).

Removing tools from man is idiotic. And it will do nothing to solve the problem of human-on-human violence.

[info]squidb0i

2 years ago

[info]spartakos

2 years ago

[info]olegvolk

2 years ago

[info]maineshark

2 years ago

[info]john_hardin

July 9 2009, 13:51:53 UTC 2 years ago

Typo?

"The viper is only half-day to the sandbox"? Should that be "half-way"?

[info]olegvolk

July 9 2009, 13:56:39 UTC 2 years ago

Re: Typo?

Yes, it should.
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